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Why We Can't Have Nice Things: a Golem's Perspective

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Why We Can't Have Nice Things: a Golem's Perspective

Post by Khaddo on Sun Sep 04, 2011 1:59 am

My eyes have been opened in a lot of ways since we have gotten this new temporary map. As you all are aware, I have been one of the only people rooting for a new map when 1.8 comes out, for so many reasons. However, after playing on the temporary map for ahwhile, I have realized something: some of the people on this server can be assholes when there is new change brought about.
Now, there can be many reasons for this. Ignorance of the rules of the new temporary map, feeling a new sense of freedom because of the "persimmons" going down (lol), or, as I sort of think, the idea that, without structure, everything falls to shit faster than you can say "butthurt". Seeing as what I think of as the WORST our server has to offer in the last 24 hours alone, I almost feel ashamed with the rudeness and needless hostility between people. When I had decided to run off to make my own house with Blaze, within a half hour of getting things looking really nice, chaos ensued. Coming on earlier this morning, I was hearing news of another griefer/general hoodlum activity on the server. Why can't we all just keep it together and play nice like we always have had?
It is because of the above that I have decided to officially change my attitude toward having a new map. As far as I can see, the people that could handle it don't want to see their stuff disappear, and everyone else just doesn't seem mature enough to keep things cool. Now, I know that things would be different if permissions were up and everything worked, but... some people just can't handle change.
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Re: Why We Can't Have Nice Things: a Golem's Perspective

Post by Faelar Laelither on Sun Sep 04, 2011 2:01 am

I think some people find that anarchy is do-able in temporary maps because, due to the temporary nature of the map and evertyhing in it, it is considered less consequential.

I'd honestly prefer if people get along..
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Re: Why We Can't Have Nice Things: a Golem's Perspective

Post by superscope1 on Sun Sep 04, 2011 2:44 am

You should have seen some of our OTHER temp maps... Raptor + TNT = Everything gone.

Anyways, Fae is right. People think "Oh, it's a tempmap, what am I going to get in trouble for?" Kind of thing, and start doing as they please.
The most I've done so far was take a few blocks of cobble from a chest.

We've had a few successful temp maps though. The one that Rusk joined the server for, and the one where Frazz, Bubbles, and I built a little secret base and a lot of casual RP happened.

I'm one of the few people that would be fine with a temp map as well. It's fun starting over in a way, and gives you a lot of fun memories.

I really don't know where I'm going with this... Uhh.. It's a temp map, so it's not "important" so people screw around, but when a real map comes around, (New or Old) I think it will pass.
Yeah, that sounds right.

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Re: Why We Can't Have Nice Things: a Golem's Perspective

Post by Khaddo on Sun Sep 04, 2011 2:58 am

My point still stands that there would be WAY too much butthurt if we got a new map for it to even be worth thinking about.
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Re: Why We Can't Have Nice Things: a Golem's Perspective

Post by Joccaren on Sun Sep 04, 2011 3:41 am

A simple "People don't want to see their stuff to disappear" does not cover why we don't want a new map. We don't want to see that much of our lives disappear.
Spend about 10 hours a day for a month building just one thing, one alone, then have someone request that it be destroyed. It isn't a good feeling. I have put that much of my life into this server, I do not want to see it wasted. Losing everything, I would not have the heart to rebuild it.
I am fine if that is what the community on the whole wants, I will just cease to build anything on the server due to lack of motivation and log in occasionally to sort out any disputes however I can.
I also do not understand why people would want a new map. The while "start over fresh" idea kinda gets me a bit - Why? Everyone has a different idea of how to start over, and it would be disappointing for many things didn't go the way they had expected.
The two main ones I have heard is that people want a far more organised system for the world - greater restrictions on where and what to build, some going as far as to say there should only be one town (Which I am firmly against). Others want a new world where they can build without they're creations being compared to the 'giants' of our world at the moment. Both are conflicting views, and either way someone is going to be disappointed.
The new terrain features is the one argument for the new map I've heard that makes any sense, but even that is flawed. Do you value these terrain features above our world and our community? Even still, these terrain features could easily be added in by a dedicated team of builders, which I have already stated I will be a part of if the community wants these terrain features. It may take some time, and a lot of iron to buy the items from the admin shoppe, but we will be able to get the new terrain features put into the world.

As for the temp map issue, this argument has been had time and time again on temp maps: Anarchy or order. Some people need a release from the constant order of the normal map, a time to have senseless fun instead of actually accomplishing something. Others want to accomplish something in the little time they have on the temp map, almost like a challenge of 'what can I do in this limited time?'. I personally tend to feel that those who want order and building should be allowed to have their own safe haven for building, and those who want reckless fun can have their area to screw around in. The 'reckless fun' people cannot interfere with the 'order' people, and vise versa.
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Re: Why We Can't Have Nice Things: a Golem's Perspective

Post by Wheeind on Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:05 am

Joccaren wrote:A simple "People don't want to see their stuff to disappear" does not cover why we don't want a new map. We don't want to see that much of our lives disappear.
He wins.

Seriously, new world is likely to just end in disappointment when everyone realizes it isn't going to compare(for a very long time) to our 4(5 now?) months of endless work as a community.

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Re: Why We Can't Have Nice Things: a Golem's Perspective

Post by Sealand on Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:02 am

Joccaren wrote: some going as far as to say there should only be one town (Which I am firmly against).

I would like to say I more or less revised this statement, for 2-3 towns at most. Because in all honesty, there is only 2-3 REALLY active towns on the server atm. I don't wish to name names, though we can all guess which one is the most active, by far. And from what I've heard a lot of the server members who move over will follow it's leader to make a new town. This is why we have the Town Council now.

I'm not trying to get rid of anyone at all, I just don't want the server riddled with dead or 'dying' towns as it is now.

But that's even if we get a new map, which I doubt we will for a good long while.

Back on topic, no offense Khaddo, and I believe you do realize this, but this server has been up pretty long before you joined. People like Wind, Jocc, Fae, and too many more have essentially put their body and soul into the current map, even into a single town. It is just gunna end up disappointing them, and a lot of our members if we get a new map; some may quit when they realize everything's gone, others will try and trudge through.
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Re: Why We Can't Have Nice Things: a Golem's Perspective

Post by Wheeind on Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:26 am

Just to remove myself from the list I wouldn't quit but I definitely wouldn't go back to pre-last week activity levels(which I will be back to shortly).

Sea is right though, with no offense meant to anyone the people who want a new map tend to be new players or(not saying any names) people who haven't contributed a whole lot.

Not all of them fall under those two, just most.

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Re: Why We Can't Have Nice Things: a Golem's Perspective

Post by Kairus on Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:36 am

Sealand wrote:I don't wish to name names, though we can all guess which one is the most active, by far.
*cough* Pantora *cough*

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Re: Why We Can't Have Nice Things: a Golem's Perspective

Post by Joccaren on Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:40 am

Sealand wrote:
Joccaren wrote: some going as far as to say there should only be one town (Which I am firmly against).

I would like to say I more or less revised this statement, for 2-3 towns at most. Because in all honesty, there is only 2-3 REALLY active towns on the server atm. I don't wish to name names, though we can all guess which one is the most active, by far. And from what I've heard a lot of the server members who move over will follow it's leader to make a new town. This is why we have the Town Council now.

I'm not trying to get rid of anyone at all, I just don't want the server riddled with dead or 'dying' towns as it is now.

That is agreed. The whole one town thing was a bit over the top, especially when many people would want to live in different themes, which it was suggested became 'districts', which I don't see as being any different to having other towns anyway.
A few Well built, maintained and active towns would be the goal if we ever got a new map, too many towns show up and die before they even get off the ground.
In part I will put that down to the lack of reputation they have compared to the current active ones, but that could be overcome through a lot of hard work.

1.8 will be an interesting time, what happens may end up being different to what any of us expected, so really I say we call it when the time comes. I, however, am firmly against a new map. I guess I'll bring up a comparison here. A while back, a suggestion to move spawn away from Dawnbay was made. Whilst Dawnbay isn't exactly what I'd call active, and not a lot really goes on there too often, it has too many memories, and is a part of this server, thus we did not move spawn and let Dawnbay fade completely into the shadows. This map, like Dawnbay, is, when combined with the people and community, what I consider the server. Moving away from it would be losing part of ourselves and what makes us great. I don't want to see that happen.
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Re: Why We Can't Have Nice Things: a Golem's Perspective

Post by Khaddo on Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:52 am

Did everyone just miss the part where I said I don't want a new map anymore?
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Re: Why We Can't Have Nice Things: a Golem's Perspective

Post by Wheeind on Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:02 am

Khaddo wrote:Did everyone just miss the part where I said I don't want a new map anymore?

Nope, just adding to your statements..and a little "Another one finally realized". <3

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Re: Why We Can't Have Nice Things: a Golem's Perspective

Post by Khaddo on Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:06 am

I realized it from a different path. The path of cynicism. But hey, at least I got there
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Re: Why We Can't Have Nice Things: a Golem's Perspective

Post by ReceptiveRaptor on Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:43 am

Faelar Laelither wrote:I think some people find that anarchy is do-able in temporary maps

We've talked about this once before.
It's an old thread though :P
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Re: Why We Can't Have Nice Things: a Golem's Perspective

Post by Mazer_ on Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:27 am

Joccaren wrote:\The new terrain features is the one argument for the new map I've heard that makes any sense, but even that is flawed. Do you value these terrain features above our world and our community? Even still, these terrain features could easily be added in by a dedicated team of builders, which I have already stated I will be a part of if the community wants these terrain features. It may take some time, and a lot of iron to buy the items from the admin shoppe, but we will be able to get the new terrain features put into the world.
Answer, Gun, and if that don't work. Use more gun. LOLJKS(One of the things the TF2 Engineer says in Meet the Engineer).

But seriously... There are heaps of unexplored places within -5000 -5000 and 5000 5000 etc. I've seen loads of them(Which I haven't even touched), So there must be way more, you just have to look.
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Re: Why We Can't Have Nice Things: a Golem's Perspective

Post by Khaddo on Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:08 pm

Even though I am now against the idea of the new map, I don't think you guys seem to understand the enormity of the new biome changes. Jocc, I don't think it's possible for you to, let's say, make me a giant plains biome that actually ACTS like a plains biome, where it rains everywhere it should rain, has a river separating it from other biomes, etc etc. Also, one randomly generated dungeon would probably take you awhile to make, and it's only ONE dungeon. To say that you could make the terrain features in 1.8 is to say "Yeah, just sort of stay out of this area for a month..."

Edit: Also, imagine how long making a deeper ocean would take? It's just not practical in any sense of the word. Your overall point is right though, it's not worth what we are losing (and also, it's not worth the drama that would inevitably follow a new map)
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Re: Why We Can't Have Nice Things: a Golem's Perspective

Post by Oddwarf on Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:32 pm

If a poll would come out after 1.8 about making a new map because of the new features, biomes (with RIVERS) etc. I would vote yes.
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Re: Why We Can't Have Nice Things: a Golem's Perspective

Post by Joccaren on Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:35 am

Khaddo wrote:Even though I am now against the idea of the new map, I don't think you guys seem to understand the enormity of the new biome changes. Jocc, I don't think it's possible for you to, let's say, make me a giant plains biome that actually ACTS like a plains biome, where it rains everywhere it should rain, has a river separating it from other biomes, etc etc. Also, one randomly generated dungeon would probably take you awhile to make, and it's only ONE dungeon. To say that you could make the terrain features in 1.8 is to say "Yeah, just sort of stay out of this area for a month..."

Edit: Also, imagine how long making a deeper ocean would take? It's just not practical in any sense of the word. Your overall point is right though, it's not worth what we are losing (and also, it's not worth the drama that would inevitably follow a new map)

I never said it would be easy, but a team of dedicated wrokers could get it done. The dungeons wouldn't be that hard to do, I'm not really expecting that much from them with the exception of the rare blocks, which I would have to aquire from the admin shop. The actually construction of said dungeon would take at most a day.

Biomes, it rains everywhere anyway; Global weather or something, the only thing I couldn't fix would be mob spawn chances and grass texture changes. These would take the most work, but would still be able to be done eventually. They are also what I count as the least signifigant part of the update.

Rivers: Easy. I can make a large one in under a day with a shovel, a pick and 3 buckets of water.

Deeper Oceans would require some work, but are still easy to do if you know how. Dig under the land under the ocean, then remove the blocks between you and the water. Ocean deepened.

A dedicated team could get things close to 1.8 with some work, and the more people decide to help, the faster it would go. Logistics wise, I would have people work on dungeons individually, and have others find them, and work on Biomes and Oceans together to get them done faster. It will take a lot of work and time, but it can be done.
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Re: Why We Can't Have Nice Things: a Golem's Perspective

Post by spiffzombie on Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:54 am

Joccaren wrote:

Deeper Oceans would require some work, but are still easy to do if you know how. Dig under the land under the ocean, then remove the blocks between you and the water. Ocean deepened.

you can just did 1X1X1 trenches under the ocean and place tnt in them.

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Re: Why We Can't Have Nice Things: a Golem's Perspective

Post by Khaddo on Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:06 am

What about Giant Mushroom biomes? anyway, That isn't the point. I don't care about the new terrain features for our server. I don't think we should even bother to take months to build something that, on a different map, would literally pop into existence in seconds. It's just something we are going to have to pass up. I am okay with this.

Odd, you may be one of the only people that want a new map now. Besides Frazz, who seems to have a more favorable opinion on a new map than I would have thought.
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